Metaphors, politics, and religion

[dougo]

An interesting debate about politics and cognitive science:

Stephen Pinker reviews and rebuts George Lakoff's Whose Freedom?
George Lakoff responds
Stephen Pinker responds (subscription only, unfortunately, and I don't plan to subscribe to the New Republic any time soon)

I don't have the energy right now to add my own thoughts, so I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader (that is, feel free to post your own thoughts, and/or guess why my thoughts are). But I thought it was worth passing on. We report, you decide!

I found this via a longish sequence of links starting with memegarden's post about an essay by Doug Muder about thiesm and atheism. He echoes my thoughts about operational definitions: he classifies people as "functional theists" and "functional atheists", which gets rid of the need for an "agnostic" category—either your actions are affected by the idea of God, or they aren't. The rest of the essay (actually a Unitarian sermon) is a little too relativistic for me, but it's an interesting read.

Anyway, Muder also writes about Lakoff's ideas, as well as those of James Ault and Thomas Frank (What's the Matter with Kansas?—and, anyone here remember The Baffler?), synthesizing them into a different model of contrasting kinds of families. libertarianhawk points out that this is conflating views about the family metaphor of government with views of actual families, and refines the model into two dimensions (rather like other two dimensional ideological graphs). My eyes kind of glazed over halfway through these essays, but it's worth skimming at least.

Comments

[stoneself.livejournal.com]

i don't think it's completely wrong. but it is very incomplete in the last step.

he understands a lot about how to get individuals to think certain things.
he understands a bit less about how thoughts lead to action in individuals.

his big gap is that he's not so good at getting from individual action to collective action.

most of his unsupported conjecture is how individual though becomes action of the electorate.

* * *

can you point out where it is completely wrong?

[st-rev.livejournal.com]

Well, ruining the project from square one is the fact that (as Pinker points out in some detail) Lakoff grasps conservative psychology and ideology(-ies) about as well as Jack Chick grasps Islam¹. Conservatives get that way because they worship the Devil Moon God Strict Father. It's a ludicrously reductionistic, distorted, and (because of this) fundamentally unserious stance from which to purport to explain political psychology, and suggests that any valid insights in the rest of his theory are of the stopped-clock variety.


1: Speaking as neither a fan of conservatism nor Islam here.

[stoneself.livejournal.com]

having heard the argument lakoff makes in person, pinker seriously misconstrues what lakoff is saying.

so what pinker says lakoff says is ludicrous and distorted.

what lakoff has to say is better grounded than what pinker misunderstands.

[stoneself.livejournal.com]

ps have you read lakoff's book?

[st-rev.livejournal.com]

Read some of his articles on his current theory, and Women, Fire and Dangerous Things (which I liked) years ago. I don't see any reason to read the book; his errors are up front.

[stoneself.livejournal.com]

his errors are up front

they are. but not the ones you've mentioned so far.

[st-rev.livejournal.com]

Uhhh yeah, you have fun with that.